U.S. Prison System

[Underdude]

Could it be that certain segments of society are incarcerated more than others a cultural and educational problem and not a problem with a racist society? Could it be that victimhood, or 'playing the victim', and not taking personal responsibility for oneself have something to do with it? If whatever I do is always someone elses fault ie a 'racist society', then I can absolve myself of all responsibility for my actions.

Absolutely sarge

[Rampdog]

Also, there is some pretty strong evidence, albeit just correlational, that suggests the more educated a population the less the blue collar crime level. So, there is probably the same exact level of crime, just not the kind you see in the news about someone getting stabbed in the face for a pair of shoes. It would be nice if we could focus on areas with a high crime rate with education, rather than incarceration.

Unfortunately education alone isn't the entire answer. I don't have the data in front of me to back this, but I believe that one would find that in most crime ridden areas the incidence of out of wedlock marriage and single mothers with multiple children and no father in the picture is very high. Sadly, most of those children are left to their own devices by a parent or parents who just don't care and (this dovetails with the other thread about education) certainly take no part in their children's education to the point they don't even make sure the kids go to school. Now obviously there are exceptions, but by and large I think this is true. And here again is where the government sticks it's nose in and only makes things worse. The Feds ahve poured untold billions into education and all that's come of it is declining test scores and dumber students. But the government and teachers unions tend to want to push a certain agenda also with core subjects that children desperately need taking a back seat to social experimentation. I too came from a poor family. There were times we didn't know where the next meal was coming from or if we'd even have a roof over our heads that afternoon. But my parents made sure my brothers and I went to school. They stressed education as a way to a better life and made sure we did our best...or else.

[Underdude]

UD, I think you're right on the stupid legislation for most drug offenses. However, the question comes in to play if it is even possible to rehabilitate an individual. For example, most child molesters, sexual predators, and rapists get caught doing the same thing again. I forget the exact correlational percentage, but I think it was in the 90s. Now, as far as the drug use - I can't really say. Although I do know that drugs do lead to other crimes, most of the time, and that can cause some problems.

You get a monkey wrench throw into the system when you get the dilemma of letting someone go who has obvious drug problems for rehabilitation in hopes that they will be changed in a positive way. Or, conversely, they go to rehab but slide back into drug use and kill someone while they are high and driving a car. What do you tell the victim’s family?

I also agree with what Rampdog said, completely. Individuals, by large perceive themselves as good people - even if they are complete dbags. So the ever prevalent 'it isn't my fault, they are just targeting unjustly!' card is played frequently because it alleviates the person's cognitive dissonance (a psychological phenomenon where a person has two conflicting cognitions [e.g., Smoking is bad, but I am smoking - therefore all the ads about smoking being poor for your health is just a lie by the media]).

Also, there is some pretty strong evidence, albeit just correlational, that suggests the more educated a population the less the blue collar crime level. So, there is probably the same exact level of crime, just not the kind you see in the news about someone getting stabbed in the face for a pair of shoes. It would be nice if we could focus on areas with a high crime rate with education, rather than incarceration.

Well I can say this,
Most of the guys I grew up with did time, some more than once. One went for ADW for 4 years, and 2 years later for dope. He's been out for 8 years now, has a daughter, and he does just fine. Go figure.
I will admit that is rare, most return to the life when they get out. So I don't have the answer to this.
But they themselves "rehab" on their own. The rehab projects are usually for first time offenders and kids. If more oppertunities were available, there would be less repeat offenders.
But then again, who's going to pay for it? Who will make sure the funds are used correctly?
Me? You? The Gov? Money is the problem, not the drugs.
And I'm not for legalizing all drugs, but it shouldn't put them in the front of the line.
How much do we spend on drugs every year? How much do we spend on education and job training?

[zbuddy]

Sorry for the delay guys. School has been wrecking me lately.

Rampdog, I agree with everything but the un-wed observation. I think that the main factor is having two parents, who both love of the child and can have an operational relationship between the two of them for the sake of the child. I think a news agency said that the majority of births in the U.S. are to unwed people – but it is escaping me now for a reference. You are so ridiculously right on about the social issues.
I’ve seen some of the data on the amount of money that the federal, local, and state governments have spent on education – and none of it really worked. What worked, for the most part, was a good teacher and parents who are receptive to the child’s needs and wants. In the class that I was an assistant for, the teacher would send her students home every Friday with a ‘list’ of stuff that has been accomplished for the week by that child. The parent then had to sign off on it – so that they were aware if the kid needed any extra help. Still, some of the parents didn’t sign it, or didn’t care, and it was so glaringly obvious which students were from those parents.

UD, that is the damn quagmire. I think that the primary issue is socio-economic, but I don’t really have a solution to it. I would assume some type of early intervention (like childhood early). Glad to hear some of your buddies turned their shit around. It speak volumes about them, you should be proud because they’re a statistical outlier.

[Underdude]

I am proud of them. I don't want to admit it, but I had serious doubts about them cleaning up.
Most of the things we did back then were moronic and dangerous. I'm surprised most of us made it this far. Lucky for me I really wasn't around for the things they got pinched for.
We used to say we wouldn't even make it to Y2K.
The teacher you spoke of appears genuine, going beyond the majority of other teachers.
Most of my school years were in a town with only 2 junior highs, and one highschool. Talk about crowded.
It's really sad that teacher went above and beyond, doing things he/she didn't have to, and giving parents the perfect way to get involved, and it's ignored. They're children, not extra pay on a welfare check. Perhaps the parents who do this should be forced to send them into adoption.
Plenty of people are looking to adopt, and I'm sure they would be more involved in education.

[Whaturmuva]

But my parents made sure my brothers and I went to school. They stressed education as a way to a better life and made sure we did our best...or else.

I remember that very well. I didn't miss a day of school in all of my grade years. K-12, there every day. If I was sick I had to suck it up